User:JBJ

2005-09-10T14:42:55Z

JBJ: summary of myself

Hi. I'm an overly optimistic college student who's going to change the whole world! On WikiChrisian
I'm largely concerned with the overall structure, style, and future of the site. Otherwise, I like contributing to [[Apologetics]] and [[Current issues]] in the Church.

==Apologetics Index==
I'd like to start/expand an index of apologetics and although others have done it, wiki sure seems the way to go. I really want to this as complete as possible (most info may be external links for a while) but I'd like a little discussion before I start. Is WikiChristian the best place for this? Eventually I'd like to use it as a place to point non-Christians to; since those people could edit the topics, is this practical? (For example, a Christian could write Revelation was written around 90 AD and a Muslim could edit it to 120 AD as he honestly thinks is more accurate.) I'm mainly intending orthodox subjects (biblical inerrancy, Trinity, etc) not interdenominational disputes.

==Beware the Temptation to Lock==
Controversy in the church pages will be some of the most difficult pages to edit because with our different views, we'll want our exact views articulated. I think we'll be tempted to lock the pages to prevent abuse, however well intended. Things like, "my idea is different from that one, it should lumped together and hidden," "so few people believe that, it shouldn't be here or at least pushed down out of view," or simply to keep the contributers from disagreeing with each other. I urge us to see locking as immediately negative, while only ''potentially'' positive. Here's why:

* Locking makes the editing process much slower
* Disagreement may still occurs on who gets to "be in charge"
* Editing will be biased, however unbiased the sysop tries to be
* Many will be discouraged from contributing
* There is much less discussion

Before I discovered wikiChristian, I was considering creating my own little web page in the vast Web and encouraging readers to email and contribute, inevitibly leaving myself as the coordinator. As soon as I came here, I immediately dropped that idea. There were several factors, but the largest was the wiki spirit: that equally empowered people can accomplish much more than one empowered person and his contributers.

There is definitely a risk, because this is theory. However, I think wikipedia is proof that the model works. I contributed to a couple controversial articles with pleasant disagreements and solutions. Where they have led, surely we can follow.

WikiChristian talk:Vision2

2005-09-10T14:38:55Z

JBJ:

Please contribute! I'm not happy about this line under the Overlap heading:
* Widely read content which would otherwise be written from scratch
Suggestions? What do think of the mission statement: ''To educate the world factually and emotionally about Christianity by being the largest, qualitative source of Christian, religous material on the Web.'' --[[User:JBJ|JBJ]] 10:38, 10 Sep 2005 (EDT)

WikiChristian:Vision2

2005-09-10T14:34:15Z

JBJ:

This is article is an attempt to start defining the mission of WikiChristian, including its definition, goals, limitations, methods, and beliefs. Please contribute.

==WikiChristian's Mission==
''To educate the world factually and emotionally about Christianity by being the largest, qualitative source of Christian, religous material on the Web.'' '''Factual''' education means empirical knowledge of Christianity: its beliefs, history, and the effects of these beliefs on interpreting lives. '''Emotional''' education means an an intuitive understanding and appreciation through other people, literature, song, and visible media. '''Source''' means encyclopedic information, published writings, biblical exegesis, and external links to the Web.

==Beliefs==

''Main article:'' [[WikiChristian:Beliefs]]

WikiChristian holds the beliefs common to all Christians.

==Contributers==
Contributers do not need to agree to any statement of faith but need to understand and stay with WikiChristian's mission. Deletion of any work because of disagreement is forbidden. All work in possible disagreement must cite who believes it.

==Inclusion of Beliefs==
All beliefs may be expanded as largely as contributers are motivated. However, ideas with a smaller following will be noted as such.

==Overlap of Information==
Other [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Content open content] sources will over lap in information and, legally, may be freely copied here. However, this should be done for only the following reasons:

* Creation of WikiChristian policy, information, tutorials, etc.
* Widely read content which would otherwise be written from scratch

Other information should be connected with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_links external links].

==What WikiChristian Is Not==

===A Forum===
Forums exist on the Web to create communities sharing their experiences and information in a personal manner. While such communities are positive, wiki technology is not the best means. Testimonies are encouraged as single or topical works. Personal conversations, those not related to the building of WikiChristian, are encouraged to move to email, forums, blogs, or other outlets.

===Member of a Denomination===

''Main article:'' [[WikiChristian:Beliefs]]

WikiChristian does not follow an extensive belief system. It objectively provides information pertanent to Christians. It does not make a claim to the truth of possible beliefs within Christianity. It will discuss all differing beliefs of Christianity.

===A Redefinition of the World===
WikiChristian articles should not take a secular subject and attach Christian interpretation. For example, an article on the wives of Henry VIII and how he was not a Christian. Resources are already available on the life of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII Henry VIII]. A suitable strategy would be an article on the definition of a [[Christian]] or a historical article on the formation of the Anglican Church.

[[Category:WikiChristian]]

WikiChristian: Beliefs

2005-09-10T14:32:32Z

JBJ: typo

WikiChristian is a Christian organization holding the beliefs below and none other, accept where clearly derived from those below. On any other matters, WikiChristian does not take a stand but encourages the spread and expression of ideas without bias.

==God==
God is simultaneously immanent and removed. He is omnipotent: He created everything that is and there is nothing which, by strength, He could not destroy. He is onmiscient: He is everywhere, observing everything and is always able to intervene. He is all-knowing: His knowledge pierces every soul. He is holy: unable and unwilling to sin. God is mysterious: His power, knowledge, wisdom, holiness, and infinite Being transcends human understanding.

However, He is love: He lay down His incarnate life for humankind. He is historical: He intervened on earth for our betterment.

==Jesus==
Jesus, the Son of God, the mystery of God dwelling in flesh, lived, died, rose, and ascended. His death and resurrection was a complete atonement for humanity's sins for those who accept.

==The Bible==
The Bible was written by men with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and makes people "wise for salvation" and is "useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." Its contents are every book of the Protestant canon (at least). Every verse is of Truth.

It must be understood in regards to the context of its human writers. Therefore, some verses are literal, some are figurative, some depend on culture, some on human personality. The Bible was written as a story of God's redemption of us and our response. Therefore, human's words and deeds are sometimes ideal, sometimes merely historical.

==Truth==
Truth comes many sources: the Bible, reason, experience, emotions, tradition, Creation, and people. However, the interpretation of these sources is always subject to human imperfection. God requires humility in understanding His Truth. "Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom." (Proverbs 9:10)

[[Category:WikiChristian]]

WikiChristian: Beliefs

2005-09-10T14:31:50Z

JBJ: added category

2005-09-09T09:54:09Z

JBJ: /* */

WikiChristian talk:Community Portal

2005-09-09T09:51:08Z

JBJ: ==Defining WikiChristian==

----
I have some information on the book of Hebrews that I would like to contribute. Could that page be unprotected so that I can add the info? [[User:Cpark|Cpark]] 08:37, 4 Feb 2005 (PST)

----

Okay, I've unprotected the main index page for Hebrews (and for all the other books of the Bible)

== songs and lyrics ==

I'm not sure where to post this info, so I thought that it'd fit here.
I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to wikis, so I have some ideas regarding the layout of songs. Currently each song has a separate page linking to its lyrics instead of just writing a heading and let the lyrics be underneath. Linking means that there will be a very large amount of pages as soon as we start to really grow, and it might be confusing for especially new users. I also have to object against the same behaviour being practised when it comes to, for example the page about [[Matt Redman]]. Can't his info and/or bio reside in that page instead of the current [[About Matt Redman]].

Back to songs. Right now all songs have the name in the page title, meaning that it might be a little difficult to see what pages are songs, what pages are articles and so on. On another wiki wer'e using namespaces to make things easier. That means that songs have the page prefix Song: and that it is separately searchable. Free Bible Dictionary does already follow that naming scheme, and it works pretty well to keep it from cluttering, doesn't it?

Feel free to comment on my ideas. [[User:Etnoy|Etnoy]] 02:08, 18 Mar 2005 (PST)

----
Hi,
Regarding the issue of lyrics, [[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] is doing that wonderful work and you can go ahead and discuss any ideas for improvement with him. It is a matter of style and some times planning for the growth in future. As long as the pages have proper links, it may not be confusing but I think some of the pages that have just one page link can be made part of other pages. Discuss the issue with [[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] and agree on a plan or agree to disagree.

Thanks,
[[User:Prab|Prab]]

== copying articles from wikipedia ==

There seem to be tons of articles on wikipedia for Christian subjects. Are there any problems in copying these over to here? Any legal ramifications or anything?

''No, all wikipedia's content is licensed under [[GNU FDL]] and can feeely redistributed as long as you say the source.''

Any easy way to port them over here? I'm thinking mainly of the historic and factual entries such as the ones on all the different denominations.

''Yes, it's perfectly legal to copy any or every wikipedia article -- see the [[GNU FDL]] for details, and [http://openfacts.berlios.de/index-en.phtml?title=Copies_of_Wikipedia_content OpenFacts] for examples of other web sites doing just that.''
''However, is copying -- or more accurately, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forking forking] -- really a good idea? I think that for historical facts where we think Wikipedia has gotten it right, we might as well leave it there and just link to it.''
''Obviously I'm a big fan of http://CommunityWiki.org/ConsolidateInformation . I'm willing to grant that it may be a good idea for *some* articles to be copied over, to gain http://CommunityWiki.org/ProductiveWikiOverlap . But not *every* article on "Christian subjects". --[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] 22:10, 15 Apr 2005 (PDT)''
:I'd be pretty interested in copying at least some of the material over. There are some important fundamental sections that could be used as fillers for now, until local editors create something better. --[[User:Mustaphile|Mustaphile]] 22:29, 4 May 2005 (PDT)

* Nice find with CommunityWiki. Have y'all considered contributing to Wikisource for EBD, KJV Concordance, Smith's, etc? I think this would be a great way to consolidate "wiki" information. I've mentioned this on [http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/Talk:Easton%27s_Bible_Dictionary#Relationship_to_WikiSource.3F TheoWiki EBD Wikisource discussion] and [[Talk:Easton%27s_Bible_Dictionary]]. --[[User:RockOfVictory|J. J.]] 11:08, 10 May 2005 (PDT)
** I think it sounds good in principle, but in reality people like to keep users on their wiki, rather than sending them off to another wiki, where they have no links guiding them back. There are issues of administration and point of view(POV) in using other wiki sources that are difficult to address. From my POV, a solely christian wiki is going to be more lenient with regards to christian content than a wiki that does not have a christian focus. --[[User:Mustaphile|Mustaphile]] 15:02, 10 May 2005 (PDT)

==Layout of some of the pages==
Hi all. I've recently found this wiki after spending a lot of my time on Wikipedia. I must say that some of the ways that articles have been created here with links leading to pages with more links, leading to pages with more links has really grated with my wikipedia sensibilities. I find it frustrating to be constantly narrowing the focus of my choices each time, when what I really want to do is just get the article(any article in fact sometimes, as often times I reach the end and there is nothing there). I have been looking for any discussion on a styleguide, but have not found anything. I think it might be a worthwile discussion to have. --[[User:Mustaphile|Mustaphile]] 22:26, 4 May 2005 (PDT)

==Style guide for song articles==
I've recently begun re-arranging the way that songs are entered into the Wiki. Being the type of Wiki editor that I am, I tend to go all guns blazing into the task. I wonder whether we should at least be having some discussion on the subject though, as I don't want to be too aggressive in how I go about editing other peoples work. I'm going to start a page to talk about styleguides for song entries on [[WikiChristian:Song styleguide]]. I hope others will participate on the discussion on this at the talk page concerned at [[WikiChristian talk:Song styleguide]]
--[[User:Mustaphile|Mustaphile]] 08:28, 8 May 2005 (PDT)

==Apologetics Index==
I'd like to start/expand an index of apologetics and although others have done it, wiki sure seems the way to go. I really want to this as complete as possible (most info may be external links for a while) but I'd like a little discussion before I start. Is WikiChristian the best place for this? Eventually I'd like to use it as a place to point non-Christians to; since those people could edit the topics, is this practical? (For example, a Christian could write Revelation was written around 90 AD and a Muslim could edit it to 120 AD as he honestly thinks is more accurate.) I'm mainly intending orthodox subjects (biblical inerrancy, Trinity, etc) not interdenominational disputes.

Please give me any thoughts here or email Masheach-at-gmail.com. --[[User:JBJ|JBJ]] 12:23, 2 Jul 2005 (PDT)

----

Go ahead and start and expand an index of apologetics. It is an excellent idea. WikiChristian hopefully is a good place for it. Let me know if you need to be a sysop. [[Graham Llewellyn Grove|G.G.]]

== ==Defining WikiChristian== ==

I think it would be greatly beneficial if we (or the sysops or whoever) could create an in depth definition of WikiChristian is and what it is not. I think Wikipedia is a great example of having done this well. I come from the perspective that "all truth is God's truth," that very little exists that is inappropriate for a Christian encyclopedia. However, I don't think we want to aimlessly copy and paste from other wikis as a use of our time, yet doing so in some capacity seems very practical. Let's decide where to draw this line. I would hate for anyone to contribute in bulk and have someone decide later that those hundreds of hours should not be displayed.

Another example is on the issue of objectivity. Whereas Wikipedia is strict in not making or implying any kind of bias, we clearly accept the bias that Christianity is true and positive thus we have content excluded from Wikipedia. (That is why I am here.) On the Christian spectrum from conservative to liberal to universalist, how far should that extend? A universalist may label herself both Christian and Muslim and cite Muslim beliefs; how do we deal with that?

Another issues Is original research/original ideas acceptable?

I think we need to formally define WikiChristian as more than a Christian encyclopedia, but as a Christian ''index'' as well. Informally, we have done this already, eg the song index, the apolgetics index, personal stories, entire translations of the Bible; this kind of content would never be in a normal enclopedia. In fact, perhaps it would be defined only as a Christian index, therein containing enclopedic entries.

So far WikiChristian has been small enough not to deal with such issues, but if it grows to a household name, which I pray it does, these will be crucial issues. Best to "nip them in the bud." Your thoughts? --[[User:JBJ|JBJ]] 05:51, 9 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Gender Politics within the Church

2005-09-08T12:04:40Z

JBJ: changed headings and slight re-organization

''In brief,'' The beginning of Christianity was marked by the elevation of women by Jesus' impartiality and Paul's words, "In Christ there is neither male nor female." However, Western culture has caught up with the New Testaments teaching and goes farther than the teachings of the Church at large. Some Christians oppose the secular intrusion, while some Christians believe the Church succumbed to historical sexism and no longer teaches God's original equality.

----

==Introductions and overview==
* [[Gender and politics in the church - An introduction]]

==Issues==
* [[Women in leadership in the church]]
* [[Head Coverings]]
* [[Headship in Marriage]]
* [[Teaching of Women]]

==Issues by Reference==
* [[God's Law of Marriage | Genesis 2:24]] "A man will leave his family . . ."
* [[Eve Controversey | Genesis 3]] Eve's Role
* [[Adam's Rib | Genesis 3:21-22]] Adam's Rib
* [[Head Coverings | 1 Corinthians 11:2-16]] Women must cover their head
* [[Women Keep Silent | 1 Corinthians 14:34]] "Women must keep silent . . ."
* [[Paul's Word to Timothy | 1 Timothy 2:8-15]] Paul's words to Timothy
* [[Submission in Marriage | Ephesians 5:21-33]] Submission in marriage

==Literature==
* Conservative Books
** None yet
* Egalitarian Books
** [[God's Word to Women]] by [[Katherine Bushnell]]

Head Coverings

2005-09-08T12:02:46Z

JBJ: typo

==Text==
{| cellspacing="3" cellpadding="3"
|- valign="top"
|width="100%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|
''Now I praise you that ye remember me in all things, and hold fast the traditions, even as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonoreth her head; for it is one and the same thing as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not veiled, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled. For a man indeed ought not to have his head veiled, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man: for neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man: for this cause ought the woman to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels. Nevertheless, neither is the woman without the man, nor the man without the woman, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, so is the man also by the woman; but all things are of God. Judge ye in yourselves: is it seemly that a woman pray unto God unveiled? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. But if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. (ASV) ([http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20cor%2011.2-16;&version=49; 1 Corinthians 11:2-16]])''
|}
==Issues==
Should women cover their heads as Paul instructed? If so, why do so few Christian women do it? Isn't this similar to the laws of the Torah, which Paul teaches abandon? Paul implies that nature teaches women should have long hair, but this doesn't appear to be true.

==Views==
* [[Head Covering: Orthodox View | Orthodox View]] Women should cover their heads, including modern women
* [[Head Covering: Contemporary View | Contemporary View]] Women should not cover because Paul's comment
* [[Head Covering: Bushnell View | Bushnell View]] The passage is mistranslated and Paul actually forbids all head coverings.

==External Links==
* [http://expage.com/page/headcovering Headcovering Directory] Links to pages of the orthodox view view

* [http://www.tektonics.org/uz/veilwear.html On the Meaning and Context of 1 Cor. 11] A contemporary view

----

[[Gender Politics within the Church]]

Talk:Head Covering: Bushnell View

2005-09-05T19:52:00Z

JBJ:

==Veiling vs Covering==
Bushnell always uses "veil" and "veiling" while every modern translation uses "covering." Until I learn Greek well enough, I don't know the relationship between these translations. Is "covering" a modern attempt to belittle the orthodox interpretation, since covering is less extreme than veiling? Or is veiling really a mistranslation? Or are both equally valid? This has an effect both in the implications if one takes the orthodox view, and the application of Jesus words that angels always behold God's face, which could happen even if they are covered. I have used "covering" to appeal to the modern audience, except when quoting Bushnell. --[[User:JBJ|JBJ]] 15:52, 5 Sep 2005 (EDT)

==Welter==
I have skimmed Welter's article linked at the bottom of the page and found it to everywhere agree with this article, sometimes expanding it.--[[User:JBJ|JBJ]] 15:52, 5 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Head Covering: Bushnell View

2005-09-05T19:34:44Z

JBJ: explained new translation and interpretation outcomes from it

The Bushnell view is an informal label for the view that in 1 Corinthians 11, [[Paul]] does not command women to cover their heads, but discourages it. In this view, Paul allows women to cover if neccessary for their husband's sake, but forbids covering otherwise. The same conclusion is found by John Lightfoot and William Welty. The original and in depth view can be found in [[God's Word to Women]] by [[Katherine Bushnell]], lessons 29-35.

The foundation of this view is not of interpretation, but translation. Most of the translation error is because [[Koine Greek]] has no puncuation, thus it does not clearly show quotations, the ending of sentences, and questions. All of these are put in place by the translator.

==Problems with Traditional Translation==
When using the traditional translation, several problems and contradictions arise. For these reasons alone we must interpret that Paul is not commanding the covering of women. Bushnell's view eliminates all these problems.

===Verse 4, "Dishonors his Head"===
If a man dishonors his Head, Christ, by covering it, then woman, whose Head is Christ also, would dishonor her Head, Christ, by covering it. This implies women should uncover.

===Verse 7, "Image of God"===
If a man should uncover because he is in the image of God, then woman, who is in the image of God, should uncover also. This implies women should uncover.

===Verse 10, "Because of the Angels"===
The first problem is discovering what is meant in verse 10 by "because of the angels." Scholars seem to agree there is no obvious interpretation.

===Verse 10, "Must have Authority"===
Paul commands women to have authority on their head. What is the "authority?" By context, it can only possibly be a head covering, or a lack of a head covering. By reasoning, a head covering is not a sign of authority; Paul forbids the men from covering because their covering a sign of sin, which makes slaves of its owners. Thus Paul must be ordering women to uncover as a sign of their authority.

===Verses 11, 12, "Man and Woman United"===
These verses say that man and woman are together. Why would Paul include this in a passage where he treats men and women differently? The verses are an arguement that the same rule applies to women as to men, implying that women should unveil as well.

===Verse 13, "Judge for Yourselves===
Paul write the lengthy letter of 1 Corinthians mostly to teach and correct. The Corinthian church is divisive, arrogant (1 Cor 4:18), houses a sexually immoral man (5:1), and Paul implies they are at least tempted by prostitution (6:16). This is not a group Paul would trust to make their own conclusions concerning women ("judge for yourselves"). Moreover, he would not write this passage instructing them on covering if he later told them to decide for themselves.

===Verse 14, Nature's Teaching ===
An honest attempt to answer Paul's question, "Does nature teach . . ." will yield an undeniable "No." It is not a shame for man to have long hair; the Nazarite vow (Numbers 6:5) certainly deny this. If anything, Nature teaches that everyone should have long hair, because, left on its own, anyone's hair will grow long.

===Verse 16, "No such Custom"===
Paul denies that neither he nor other churches have "such custom." What custom is he refering to? It must be the custom of covering, for no other custom is mentioned. Thus he has contradicted himself, or at least, the view that he is commanding covering.

===The Contemporary view===
Interpreting the passage as cultural and temporary brings the problemm that much of Paul's evidence is not cultural, but theological. Things like man and woman being binded together, the woman being created for man, and nature are not temporary but eternal. If Paul uses eternal arguements, his conclusion must be eternal.

==The Symbolism of Covering==

===Male Covering===
Jewish tradition mandated that men cover their heads when praying to God as a reminder of their sin and shame. However, because "there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ," Paul commands the believers to uncover their heads.

===Female Covering===
Culturally relative, for a Jewess to uncover her hair to those outside the family was seen as sexually promiscuous (similarly in modern Muslim communities). This was considered grounds for divorce. Also, women accused of adultery could be punished by having their heads shaved, a grave dishonor to her husband.

==Another Translation==
The American Standard Version translates relatively the same as all other well known translations. The following compares this with Bushnell's translation and explains her reasons. Only explanations for the more important differences are explained. Read [[God's Word to Women Lesson 32]] and [[=God's Word to Women Lesson 33 | Lesson 33]] for complete explanations.

===Translation Comparison===
Note that Bushnell's words within brackets '''[ ]''' are intended as aided interpretation. If a reader where comfortable with her translation and interpretation, these thoughts would occur mentally while reading. They are not intended as insertions to the text; that is, if it were published within a complete translation of the Bible, they would be removed or used only in footnotes. Note also that the many minor differences between the texts are simply the result of different paths of translation. Ideally, a comparison would be made between the Revised Standard Version which Bushnell usually used herself and probably used to aid her in this translation.

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3"
|width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|
!width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Traditional Translation (ASV)
!width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Bushnell Translation
|-----
!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(3)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"| But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|But I wish you to understand that of every [Christian] man Christ is the Head; but of a wife the husband is a head [also]; and God is Christ's Head.
|-----
!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(4)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Any [Christian] man praying or prophesying, having his head covered [as is required among the Jews, in sign of guilt and condemnation] dishonors his Head [Christ, who has atoned for all his sins].
|-----
!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(5)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|But every woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonoreth her head; for it is one and the same thing as if she were shaven.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|But any wife praying or prophesying bareheaded dishonors her [other] head [her husband], for it would be one and the same thing as [having] her head shaved.
|-----
!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(6)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|For if a woman is not veiled, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|For [Jewish law provides that] if a woman is not covered, let her be shorn. Now if it would bring disgrace to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
|-----
!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(7)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|For a man indeed ought not to have his head veiled, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|For a [Christian] man ought not to veil the head because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is [also] the glory of man.
|-----
!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(8)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|For a man indeed ought not to have his head veiled, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man:
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|For man is not originally from woman [as from a despised and inferior source], but woman is from man.
|-----
!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(9)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"| for neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man:
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Nor was the man created for the woman [to help her], but the woman for the man [to help him].
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!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(10)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"| for this cause ought the woman to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|For this [additional] cause ought the woman to have authority over her head [to unveil it] because of her angels [who always behold God's face].
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!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(11)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"| Nevertheless, neither is the woman without the man, nor the man without the woman, in the Lord.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Nevertheless, in the Lord, [i.e. among believers,] the woman is not [to be legislated for] apart from the man, nor the man from the woman.
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!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(12)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"| For as the woman is of the man, so is the man also by the woman; but all things are of God.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|For just as woman came out of man, so is man [born into the world] through woman and all Christians born of God. Judge of this matter among yourselves.
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!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(13)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Judge ye in yourselves: is it seemly that a woman pray unto God unveiled?
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"| It is proper for a woman [at least] to pray unto God unveiled.
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!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(14)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|Nor is there anything in the nature of hair itself that teaches you that if a man wear it long it is a dishonor to him, while if a woman have long hair it is a glory to her, for her hair has been given her instead of a veil.
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!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(15)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|
|-----
!width="4%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|(16)
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|But if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
|width="48%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #ffddc0; color: #000; background-color: #ffffee"|But if anyone thinks to be contentious [in defense of such a custom as either men or women veiling for worship], let him know that "we have no such custom, neither the Churches of God."
|}

===Verses 5, 6, Jewish Quotation===
As noted above, in the Jewish tradition it was suitable punishment to shave the head of a women accused of adultery, as would an uncovered women would likely be if she were married to a nonChristian Jew. It was unusual for Paul to agree with any Jewish tradition, let alone not directly connected with the [[Messiah]]. It also strange that Paul would say "If it is a shame . . ." after mentioning why it would so shameful.

To harmonize with Paul's arguements against veiling, Bushnell interprets that Paul is refering to Jewish tradition, not his own ruling. A different translation could be to insert quotation marks beginning with verse 5 and ending after the first sentence of verse 6. Thus in the latter part of verse 6 Paul is not being redundant, he is responding to the Jewish tradition.

===Verse 10, "Her Angels"===
The correct translation is "her," not "the." Paul says that angels are inferior to humans (1 Corinthians 6:3) and Jesus says, "in heaven their [children's] angels do always behold the face of My Father." Paul's arguement is that if angels are not veiled before God, neither should women who are above the angels.

===Verse 12, "Judge for Yourselves"===
Koine Greek does not separate words into sentences, much less into verses. Both were added later by scribes and translators interpreting the text. Thus the phrase "judge for yourselves" could belong and apply to verse 12 or verse 13. Because Paul would not trust the Corinthians to judge such a hard issue as covering, but he would trust them to judge a simple one like verse 12, Bushnell moves it to verse 12. Thus there is no colon but simply a period, completing the thought.

===Verse 13, "It Is Proper"===
This is the most difficult verse. Because Koine Greek contained no marks ending a sentence, the question mark in traditional translations could also be a period or an exclamation mark. The first word of verse 13 is literally translated "it is." Where English reverses these words to form a question, Greek had no such method. Thus the only way to tell between a simple statement and question was context; if spoken, it could be known through inflection of voice, as in English. To harmonize with the rest of the passage, and because there is little sense in Paul asking about what he is teaching, Bushnell translates this as a statement. "It is proper for a woman to pray unto God unveiled."

===Verses 14, 15, "Nor does even Nature"===
For the reasons in verse 13 above, these verse may be translated "Not does even nature" instead of "Does not even nature." Also, because question marks did not exist, verse 14 and 15 can be joined into a single sentence. Thus both verses are in the negative; Paul is saying a woman's hair is ''not'' given as a covering.

==New Interpretation==
Obviously, with the completely reversal of one of two main points of a half chapter comes new conclusions. First notice that all the contradictions and confusions disappear, as if we realized we had skipped a chapter while reading a novel.

===Women May Veil===
Paul does ''allow'' women to veil, but only if it is shame for her to be shaven, which would only happen if her husband made her shave (perhaps by pressure of his family who are unhappy with her conversion from Judaism). However, Paul makes no allowances if she is not to be shaven. Veiling is the exception to rule.

===Women should Unveil===
To most women, Paul insists that they unveil. This is then another great separation from traditional Judaism where many Christians are coming from, another emphasis that Jesus changes the lives of believers in a visible manner. It also treats men and women on the same scale. Women should unveil because she is in the image of God, because Christ is her head, because even the angels are uncovered before God, and because she should have a sign of authority. To non-Christians who say the Bible holds women back, this is another historical example that it actually made a great stride forward.

===A Passage not Ignored===
Many Christians fear reading and interpreting this passage for fear of confusion or a contradiction to their view that women need not veil. This interpretation invites readers to come again and marvel at Paul's wisdom and Jesus' great work.

==See Also==
[http://williamwelty.com/docs/rethinking_the_veil.pdf Rethinking the Veil] William Welty agrees with Bushnell; in pdf format.