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::: Thank you for the clarification and at least leaving this note in the discussion. My notes were listed because I thought this wiki was to be a window to general reliability. My second attempt was trying to find a compromise that would at least provide an option for accurate information for visitors, even if only in a footnote. As mentioned, there isn't debate on the facts, only whether to expose students to them. No reputable Greek phonologist would argue that ει was pronounced like English 'ei'/'neighbour' in the first century, but they recognize its linkage to ι. See Teodorsson, Allen, Gignac, Horrocks, Bubenick, in addition to Moulton, Robertson, Funk listed above, et al. I can understand Koine pedagogues not following what is known, but to call a consensus a 'minority' is strange and confirms its need. And both Classical and Koine pedagogues agree on German '''ue''' for υ-ψιλον. On your Hebrew notes, likewise, `ayin is not a glottal stop, though it may be difficult for Europeans to pronounce. It is a preferred way of reading the Hebrew Bible in synagogues the world over and is featured on Israeli television and radio everyday. A Christian wiki would want to reconnect a coming generation to the languages of scripture as much as possible and open up paths for them to advance to what can be achieved. It would be nice to hear Christian students fluently reading Hebrew scriptures, with understanding, in a way that would be respected in Israel. At least to dream about it. The wiki can inform the audience that there are levels of aspiration far beyond the wiki.--[[User:Koinedoctor|Koinedoctor]] 20:31, 1 February 2009 (PST) | ::: Thank you for the clarification and at least leaving this note in the discussion. My notes were listed because I thought this wiki was to be a window to general reliability. My second attempt was trying to find a compromise that would at least provide an option for accurate information for visitors, even if only in a footnote. As mentioned, there isn't debate on the facts, only whether to expose students to them. No reputable Greek phonologist would argue that ει was pronounced like English 'ei'/'neighbour' in the first century, but they recognize its linkage to ι. See Teodorsson, Allen, Gignac, Horrocks, Bubenick, in addition to Moulton, Robertson, Funk listed above, et al. I can understand Koine pedagogues not following what is known, but to call a consensus a 'minority' is strange and confirms its need. And both Classical and Koine pedagogues agree on German '''ue''' for υ-ψιλον. On your Hebrew notes, likewise, `ayin is not a glottal stop, though it may be difficult for Europeans to pronounce. It is a preferred way of reading the Hebrew Bible in synagogues the world over and is featured on Israeli television and radio everyday. A Christian wiki would want to reconnect a coming generation to the languages of scripture as much as possible and open up paths for them to advance to what can be achieved. It would be nice to hear Christian students fluently reading Hebrew scriptures, with understanding, in a way that would be respected in Israel. At least to dream about it. The wiki can inform the audience that there are levels of aspiration far beyond the wiki.--[[User:Koinedoctor|Koinedoctor]] 20:31, 1 February 2009 (PST) | ||
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| + | :::: Of the dozens of editors who have come (and gone) of this wiki, you are the second to have even studied Greek and Hebrew at any level beyond passing. I merely suggest that this wiki reflect the overwhelming majority of university level education in the English-speaking world. Someone who practiced what you preach would need to be educated not merely in the specific you list, but also in the scholarship to defend them. Since we are not primarily interested in creating a Phonetics-Apologetics site, I deem it wisest to maintain the status-quo, however sub-par-excellence that may be. --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 01:09, 2 February 2009 (PST) | ||
Revision as of 09:09, 2 February 2009
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This page is the main discussion forum for WikiChristian. Please bring up any technical or organizational topics here. See also: Help:Contents page.
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Anonymous edits?
Vandalism seems to be on the decrease at WikiChristian. I wonder if now is a good time to re-allow anonymous edits. Any opinions? Plus, if we decide to do that, how do we do it? --Graham 07:13, 17 October 2008 (PDT)
- It's a server-side. If it's the consensus, I can do it in two seconds. --Aquatiki 23:00, 17 October 2008 (PDT)
- Well, let's wait and see if anyone else comments. KW is the only other user who tends to work on WikiChristian daily. The users, India, PB Pilhet and Theologian seem to stop by on around a weekly basis. Prab of course drops in a sorts out problems from time to time. I reckon we wait a couple more days, and if no one else comments, and you're agreeable, go ahead and make the change. And if vandalism seems to rear its ugly head again, then we'll go back to the current system quick-smart. Thanks. --Graham 23:10, 17 October 2008 (PDT)
Users Who Vandalize WikiChristian
Around Christmas time 2008 we had a few registered users vandalize certain pages on WikiChristian and post inappropriate photos. Should we screen those who create logins and find out their intentions before we let them create a login? Some people create logins on wikis for the purpose of vandalizing the site. Wikipedia has a number of suggestions to help deal with vandals. --DavidSpencer.ca 23:46, 28 December 2008 (PST)
- Some people want to be destructive and are willing to give their real name, email and more just to get at Christians. The more steps we put in their way, the more we're putting in the way of regular people who might want to contribute. Extra evil people will always exist and the steps we've taken preclude 99% of anonymous spam without inconveniencing human beings at all. I think we do almost enough as is. The guideline, however, which appear on the "block" page are ludicrously weak and don't take into account zombie computers or malicious sexual predators: they should be strengthened. --Aquatiki 23:55, 28 December 2008 (PST)
Technical submissions
How does one upgrade constructive technical data? For example, at least the following should be placed in the Koine Greek section under 'diphthongs-ei : * '
- * Most introductory grammars of NT Greek incorrectly link ει to η. However, phonologists and historians of the Greek language are unanimous that ει was joined in sound to ι before the beginning of the NT era. This is also acknowledged by NT reference grammars like Moulton-Howard-Turner, AT Robertson, and Blass-Debrunner-Funk. This is visible everywhere in old documents, in papyri, in inscriptions, and in all manuscripts of the Greek New Testament. For example, the name Πιλατος was spelled Πειλατος in Westcott-Hort's Greek NT because it is most commonly spelled that way in ancient NT manuscripts. For a linguistically up-to-date survey of Greek sounds in the NT era, see http://www.biblicalulpan.org/pages/Common/Greek%20Pronunciation%20(2008).pdf
- I can appreciate that there is some debate among scholars about the finer points of ancient Greek and Hebrew pronunciation. However, this is a general, Christian wiki and not a specific platform for linguistic scholarship. We are content to go with the majority of textbooks on this issue and are not looking to side with any minority in on-going debates. There is more than enough work to do here in terms of defining words and listing basic, grammatical details without quibbling over the minutiae of one camp over against another. Also, please wait for a response in this (or any other forum) before getting into a revert war with an administrator. --Aquatiki 12:58, 1 February 2009 (PST)
- Thank you for the clarification and at least leaving this note in the discussion. My notes were listed because I thought this wiki was to be a window to general reliability. My second attempt was trying to find a compromise that would at least provide an option for accurate information for visitors, even if only in a footnote. As mentioned, there isn't debate on the facts, only whether to expose students to them. No reputable Greek phonologist would argue that ει was pronounced like English 'ei'/'neighbour' in the first century, but they recognize its linkage to ι. See Teodorsson, Allen, Gignac, Horrocks, Bubenick, in addition to Moulton, Robertson, Funk listed above, et al. I can understand Koine pedagogues not following what is known, but to call a consensus a 'minority' is strange and confirms its need. And both Classical and Koine pedagogues agree on German ue for υ-ψιλον. On your Hebrew notes, likewise, `ayin is not a glottal stop, though it may be difficult for Europeans to pronounce. It is a preferred way of reading the Hebrew Bible in synagogues the world over and is featured on Israeli television and radio everyday. A Christian wiki would want to reconnect a coming generation to the languages of scripture as much as possible and open up paths for them to advance to what can be achieved. It would be nice to hear Christian students fluently reading Hebrew scriptures, with understanding, in a way that would be respected in Israel. At least to dream about it. The wiki can inform the audience that there are levels of aspiration far beyond the wiki.--Koinedoctor 20:31, 1 February 2009 (PST)
- Of the dozens of editors who have come (and gone) of this wiki, you are the second to have even studied Greek and Hebrew at any level beyond passing. I merely suggest that this wiki reflect the overwhelming majority of university level education in the English-speaking world. Someone who practiced what you preach would need to be educated not merely in the specific you list, but also in the scholarship to defend them. Since we are not primarily interested in creating a Phonetics-Apologetics site, I deem it wisest to maintain the status-quo, however sub-par-excellence that may be. --Aquatiki 01:09, 2 February 2009 (PST)
